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15 Comments on this post
Leave a Commentyou are playing with him, the way a cat plays with it’s prey. I almost feel sorry for Etiene.
Comment left on 6.5.2008 by Debbie Lane
Haven’t had a chance to read his entire post, but I just feel sad for someone that feels that one needs a god for morality…answering to oneself…that is harder than putting it all on to another ‘being’ .
Comment left on 6.5.2008 by Cinzanopaws
I don’t see how he is “playing with me” I agree that my english grammar is not the best but who cares?
He is still avoiding the subject, this post started by saying that Ben Stein is an idiot because of his new documentary. I see nowhere in this post any reasons why. He seems that proclaim that evolution is a proven science and I mentionned that it was a “theory” or “hypothesis” ,however you want to name it, that cannot be proven or tested, it’s only an interpretations of certain physical facts. Various theory can explain those facts. Evolution is not a science since this cannot be tested. Some adaptation do happen but nothing as drastic as what evolution teaches.
Anyway I’m done arguing hehe, I initially taugh this was a discussion but apparently not. I seems your mind is already made and even if God himself appeared to you and slap you in the face you would still not beleive in him :p
Comment left on 6.5.2008 by Etienne
How about “The evolution of antibiotic resistance in bacteria”? That’s real, and observeable because the generation time for bacteria is so small. I seem to recall reading you say that ‘adaption is not evolution’, but small adaptions on a gene level are micro-evolutions, not enough to classify the organism as a new species, but enough to make it different.
Evolution can’t be tested because it takes such a long, long time, in terms of human life span, so that makes it difficult to test, but it can be observed.
Etienne, you have so many answers that are half-science and half pseudoscience. Consider this- whether you believe you were given a brain by a god or whether you think you developed one because your ancestors thought big brains were sexy, it doesn’t matter. You have one, and it’s a crying shame if you can’t use that brain to question all that you see and try to creep closer and closer to the truth.
I could write a whole post on this, probably without offending either side, because I have been taught both creationist and evolution viewpoints. The end result is that the begining doesn’t actually matter at all, but what’s happening now. A dusty bok isn’t going to tell you that, but a thinking brain might give you some big hints.
Comment left on 6.5.2008 by Ferox
Thanks Ferox. I ditto what you said.
Comment left on 6.5.2008 by Adrian Corscadden
Well if it can’t be observe don’t assume that micro-evolution proves macro-evolution. I beleive in God but I’m not implying that I can prove my faith with physical evidence like evolutionist are trying to do, I’m just pointing out that there a lot of evidence that goes against the evolution theory and labeling everybody that do not beleive in this theory as stupid will not bring any credibility to it.
I’m not trying to push the creationist view on anybody, I just pointing out that evolutionist are using the evidence that do match their theory and disregarding the evidence that destroy this theory.
Comment left on 6.6.2008 by Etienne
I’m not against science or against trying to get closer to the truth, actually it’s the opposite, I just think that if new evidence that disprove a theory comes up it should not be ignored or hidden in order to keep a this theory alive. At least remove the unreliable information from the textbooks that present this false information as facts.
Comment left on 6.6.2008 by Etienne
such as from the bible?
Comment left on 6.7.2008 by WTJ
Well actually there are many evidences against this theory, I have mentionned a few in my previous posts and there are many more but I don’t feel like pulling them all out just for the sake of proving my point, I havent seen any evidence that proves the evolution yet. Scoffing at the Bible is not evidence for evolution.
Have you ever read the Bible? if not why are you commenting against it?
There’s actually a few verse in the Bible that actually predicted what is happinning now (it is one thing to beleive in this theory, I myself beleived in it for quite a while, but it’s another thing to reject or at least consider any evidence shown that disprove it)
2 Peter 3:3-7 (KJV)
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: ( Noah’s flood which would explain all the fossils and the “supposed” geologic columns)
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Again I’m not trying to be a smart ass here but I beleive it would be wise to at least consider both sides thoroughly before blindly accepting a theory as truth.
Comment left on 6.7.2008 by Etienne
Both sides? Etienne, there are MANY stories of creation in the world. If you grant that the story told in thebible is possible, you need to also grant that a thousand other equally implausible stories could be true, too.
Comment left on 6.8.2008 by Erica
Thanks Erica
Comment left on 6.8.2008 by Adrian Corscadden
Well I beleive the litteral 6 day creation according to the Genisis book from the original Hebrew texts. But I will not claim to be able to prove it to you since proof is the acceptance of evidence in one’s mind, If you do not accept the evidence then we are just going in circles and the discussion is pointless.
The other creation stories (that I’m aware of) are either a mix a evolution with “bible creation” , because some christians compromised the bible with the theory of evolution to avoid being rejected by the atheist scientific community, or stories from various pagan religion that can be traced back to the original Babylonian Pantheon (which according to the Bible was the where paganisim started “rebelion against God” after the flood)
“Babylon” is greek for “Babel” which mean “confusion”
You can read chapter 11 in the book of Genesis which explain how God confuse the language at the tower of Babel. According to the Bible all the earth was of one language at that time but because of their rebelion against God he confused their language and scattered them accross the earth.
Note1: Some scholars beleive the tower of Babel could have been the Babylonian Ziggurat which is tall pyramid with and Altar on top almost identical to pyramids found in South America. Note aslo that both the Babylonians and the various tribes of South America were worshiping the Sun “god” and the Moon “god or goddess”. I will not be dogmatic about this but it is interesting.
Note2: They are actually many flood strories from various ancient civilization: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html
I personnaly don’t know about all the creation stories and I will not pretend to be able to explain them all, but feel free to explore them, even if there are many creation stories it still does not validates the evolution theory;)
Comment left on 6.8.2008 by Etienne
In the ‘original’ Hebrew translation of genesis, I believe that it doesn’t actually talk about ‘Days’ but periods of time instead, and the translation is misleading. If you’re going to take a book literally that has been passed down for generations by speaking before actually being written down, then at least TRY to go to the original, which isn’t in english. Working by the translations, the English version of ’6 days of creation’ is not strictly true.
You’re also assuming that if genesis was dictated to men from God, or hatever it is you are assuming, that men at the time had the knowledge to comprehend it exactly, and in all it’s complexity. That I find hard to believe and I can easily assume that the story would be simplified so that men and children alike could comprehend it.
Do you believe in artificial selection? You know, breeding horses to be faster, cattle to be meatier, chickens to lay more eggs and so on? If so, then how can you not acknowledge the capacity for species to evolve.
Comment left on 6.8.2008 by Ferox
Artificial selection yes, but not natural, first breeding faster horse requires the intelligent input of man but even at that there are limits, I have never seen a horse as fast as a cheetah for example. You can modify horse genes to make them faster but you will not be able to make them grow wings.
Genesis has different writting styles and when the style changes it start with “these are the generation of” which could indicate a different author. Yes the first part would have been given to man by God but rest could have been observe and written by men and preserved on the ark by Noah and latter edited by Moses. Again I will not be dogmatic but it seem like a good explanation. By beleiving in evolution you are assuming a lot of things as well, and a lot of these
assumption are going against laws of physics.
If the days in Genesis were long period of day how would the plant (created on the 3rd day) reprodruce with no insects to pollonate them since animals were created on day 5. (this also cause a problem for evolutionist, which evolved first plants or animals?) But 2 days without being pollonated will not cause a problem.
Here’s an explanation of the hebrew word for day by Rodney Whitefield, Ph.D.
© Rodney Whitefield 2006 This document may be freely distributed provided it is complete and unchanged.
Recently, a reader of my book Reading Genesis One 1 asked about the use of a number with the Hebrew
word “yom.” Specifically, I was asked to comment on the statement, “Day” with numerical adjectives in
Hebrew always refers to a 24 hour period.”, which appears in John MacArthur’s Study Bible in reference
to Genesis 1:5.
The quoted statement is one which is commonly offered to justify eliminating the long “extended period of
time” meaning of the Hebrew word “yom” in Genesis 1:3-31. Eliminating the “extended period” or “age”
meaning would then give support for a 24 hour interpretation for the duration of the creative times.
In the first chapter of Genesis, the singular Hebrew word “yom” appears with a number at the conclusion of
each of the creative times. Subsequently, in this article, “yom” refers to this singular Hebrew word form.
In order to illustrate the differing opinions which have been offered as interpretation, I will very briefly
quote two well-known Bible scholars about the numbering of the word “yom.” Both scholars hold “extended
period” or “age” views of the meaning of “yom” as describing the duration of the creative times.
Subsequently, I will explain why the opinion of these two scholars has substantial support in the Hebrew,
in contradiction to the claim in the MacArthur Study Bible. First the quotes:
Gleason L. Archer, Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties, pages 60-61, Baker 1982:
“ There were six major stages in this work of formation, and these stages are represented by successive days
of a week. In this connection it is important to observe that none of the six creative days bears a definite
article in the Hebrew text; the translations “the first day,” “ the second day,” etc., are in error. The Hebrew
says, “And the evening took place, and the morning took place, day one” (1:5). Hebrew expresses “the first
day” by hayyom harison, but this text says simply yom ehad (day one). Again, in v.8 we read not hayyom
hasseni (“the second day”) but yom seni (“a second day”).
In Hebrew prose of this genre, the definite article was generally used where the noun was intended to be definite; only in poetic style could it be omitted. The same is true with the rest of the six days; they all lack the definite article. Thus they are well adapted to a sequential pattern, rather than to strictly delimited units of time.” Gleason Archer was Associate Editor of the Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament. In the quote above, the first two italicized letters ha of words like harison indicate the Hebrew prefix “heh” meaning “the.”
Norman L. Geisler, Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics, page 271, Zondervan 1999:
“Numbered days need not be solar. Neither is there a rule of Hebrew language demanding that all numbered
days in a series refer to twenty-four-hour days. Even if there were no exceptions in the Old Testament, it
would not mean that “day” in Genesis 1 could not refer to more than one twenty-four-hour period. But there
is another example in the Old Testament. Hosea 6:1-2 . . . . . . Clearly the prophet is not speaking of solar
“days” but of longer periods in the future. Yet he numbers the days in series.”
Now, given MacArthur’s statement and the above two quotes, a reader of the Bible is faced with contradictory
claims by established authorities. How is this to be resolved? My view is that MacArthur’s statement is not
supported by the underlying Hebrew text, and that the Hebrew text does support Archer and Geisler. My
analysis will first consider the numbering of the singular word “yom” from the numbers two (second)
through six (sixth).
Comment left on 6.9.2008 by Etienne
this is probably what you are refering to when talking about long periods of time. I do not agree with him when he is saying that “the” first day is in error, but at least it show that when “the” is use in front “first day” it means 24 hour day.
The King James version came from the original Hebrew and clearly says “the” first day. Other later english bibles have changed it to “a” first day to fit this “day age” theory. If you read on the history of the bible you can see how many people have tried to falsified it, that is why there is so many different versions. Understanding the hebrew words does not mean you are looking at the original manuscripts.
If the days of creation were long period of time it would cause problems, see my previous post about the shrinkage of the sun and the egg and the chicken problems with the plants and the animals.
Comment left on 6.9.2008 by Etienne